"Just What About the Phrase 'Don’t Leave Cameron Alone With the Goddamn Cured Meats' Do You Not Understand?"
An interview with Lillian Stone
Hello and welcome to Humor Science, the newsletter I started so I could have an excuse to talk to and learn from some of my favorite humor writers. Thank you for being here!
This week I interviewed Lillian Stone about her piece for McSweeney’s, Just What About the Phrase “Don’t Leave Cameron Alone With the Goddamn Cured Meats” Do You Not Understand?. We also talk about her new book (!!!!) which just came out this week. You can get a copy here, or contact your local library or favorite bookstore to request it.
Lillian’s work is unique and always laugh-out-loud funny, and I’m so excited to bring you this interview. It’s full of great tips and insights into the writing process, as well as some much-needed encouragement and inspiration.
Alright, let’s dive in!
Tell me about the inspiration for this piece. When did you start writing it?
I wrote it during the holidays, and I’m pretty sure it was inspired by my own commitment to holiday charcuterie platters—the cheap ones with Ritz crackers and grocery-store salami. I can eat a whole one solo, easy. So the piece is about a little boy who simply cannot handle himself around cured meats, which is… basically me. I am that boy.
When you’re writing a piece like this, what’s your process? Do you have a solid plan going in, or do you write freely and then shape it from there?
This piece was a total anomaly because I wrote it in one night—maybe a half hour from start to finish. I completely barfed it out and got lucky because it arrived mostly intact. I still take that approach when I write short humor; I’ll have a rough idea and try to barf out a whole draft in a half hour or so and see if anything’s coherent. Most of the time, I’ll get one or two jokes from that barf draft, but sometimes a little Cameron/salami magic happens. If I try to make my first draft really clean, I almost always run into a wall and get frustrated. It’s better for me to allow myself to be really zany at first without self-editing.
This piece is iconic. I often hear from other humor writers that it's one of their favorites. What has the reception for this piece been like for you?
Wow, that’s the nicest thing ever! The reception is really gratifying, especially considering that my other popular McSweeney’s pieces—this one and this one both come to mind—are really gross and visceral, just like the Cameron piece. I think some writers worry that they have to keep their satire and short humor very highbrow to appeal to, like, the most discerning readers of The New Yorker. There’s nothing wrong with highbrow satire, but it’s cool to know that there’s an audience for really stupid pieces about salami and clogs, too.
This piece was also your first for McSweeney's, which always feels like a big milestone. Were you surprised at all by the acceptance? Do you have any words of wisdom to share for anyone who is trying to crack their first McSweeney's publication?
Okay, so: Yes, extremely, for a million reasons! This was the first short humor piece I had written, ever. I was still living in my hometown in southern Missouri and working at a nonprofit; I hadn’t taken any classes and I had no clue about structure beyond the stuff that I enjoyed reading at the time. In a way, I think that helped me—I didn’t fully understand the ~prestige~ of a McSweeney’s publication, and I didn’t have any rules instilled in my little brain, so I was able to go huge and wacky in a very un-self-conscious way. I think that’s my first piece of advice: to forget about the probability of having your work accepted and just write work that makes you laugh.
My second piece of advice is for after you’ve cracked your first publication: Don’t get cocky! After I wrote this piece, I banged out a million similar pieces and piled up a bunch of rejections, mostly because I had no idea about structure or tone or the basic rules of comedy writing. And I was like ok??? I guess no one gets me???? When really I just had a ton to learn and was relying way too much on the wackiness.
Where do you find inspiration for your humor pieces? How do you come up with ideas?
I’m a big fan of the Thinkin’ Stroll. (Caitlin Kunkel has talked about this in her Input/Output newsletter, which I LOVE.) Everyone has a different name for this—I call it a Thinkin’ Stroll, Caitlin calls it a “subconscious walk,” behavioral scientists sometimes call it “aware mind wandering.” Either way, I like to go for a long-ish stroll (without my dog, because he is often very bad and therefore distracting) and just let my mind go wherever it wants. I’ll do this if I’m stuck on a specific piece or joke, but I’ll also do it when I’m struggling to come up with ideas. I’ll think: Okay, little brain, it’s time to wander through some things that could be funny. Sometimes I come up with a kernel of an idea; other times I just stop for Italian ice. So it’s a win-win.
I also have a really stupid tip that works for me when I’m trying to write to the absolute bottom of my intelligence, which is often. When I’m ready to write, I’ll put myself in that headspace by listening to “White Christmas” by The Drifters. You may recognize it as the song from Tim Allen’s The Santa Clause. It’s so stupid and it makes me laugh every time—a bunch of grown men singing “doop doo doop?” You sound RIDICULOUS, grow UP—and really helps me loosen up to write jokes.
Are there specific humor writers or any particular pieces out there that you’re inspired by?
I could take this opportunity to shout out all of my sweet humor-writing besties, or I could simply refer to my favorite humor piece about fucking: Colin Nissan’s “Punta Grande Resort Reviews.” It takes the premise—that (spoiler!) everyone is having sex with Miguel—to the extreme but somehow delivers solid laughs throughout. Shout out to Miguel for all the screwing!
I don’t know if this counts, but I still think SNL’s David S. Pumpkins sketch (written by Mikey Day, Bobby Moynihan, and Streeter Seidell) is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. I quote it all the time when I write a bad joke or bomb in front of a crowd or get rejected in some way: “It’s 100 floors of frights. They’re not all gonna be winners.” If you think of your writing life as a 100-floor haunted house, it’s easier to accept that some bits will be total crappers.
How did you first get started with humor writing? What advice do you have for someone who might just be getting started with their humor writing journey?
I got rejected from film school, tried to take a screenwriting class, and accidentally signed up for Caitlin Kunkel’s Second City satire writing class! It’s true! I’m obsessed with taking classes when I’m exploring a new medium, and I recommend that to everyone interested in writing in any capacity. I don’t think I’m a very intuitive creative; I’m someone who needs structure and rules, and a class is a great place to learn those rules so you can break ‘em. Just be careful whose class you take; there are a lot of comedy boot camp-style weirdos out there who’ll take so, so much of your money.
Tell me more about your book! What was it like working on personal essays? What relationship does your humor writing have with your personal essay writing?
Funny personal essays are my favorite thing to write and read, mostly because I love a silly little anecdote! That said, working on essays is HARD, especially when they’re on the vulnerable side. (Making my debut a collection of intimately personal stories about my life, upbringing, and mental health challenges? During the height of the pandemic?? CERTAINLY A NORMAL CHOICE FOR A NORMAL WOMAN???)
But while my essays are super personal, they’re also very joke-heavy. I went through each essay and punched them up about a million times, so I was able to employ a lot of super tight, structural joke writing, which was a fun challenge.
I should add: I love essays as a form, but it was tough to tackle an entire book of essays after writing primarily short humor. With short humor, you have to keep things, well, short—but with memoir-style essays, you need to paint a huge picture for the reader. It took some unlearning; I feel like every note from my agent was like, “How did you FEEL when you saw that weird bug? Tell us MORE!” when my initial inclination was to be like, “bug green! weird”
Anything else you want to add about humor writing, comedy in general, or anything at all I didn’t ask about?
I guess I should take this opportunity to TELL THE UNIVERSE that I have two half-hour comedy pilots and a feature script and I just got laid off and am therefore OPEN TO WORK?????? Is that appropriate??????????? It doesn’t even *matter* until the WGA gets a fair deal, but I figured I should mention????????????????
Where can people find more of your work? And in addition to running out right now and buying a copy of your hilarious book, is there any other news you want to plug?
Following me on Instagram and Twitter (@originalspinstr) on both is the best way to keep in touch, as well as my website. I also have four—count ‘em!—four book launch events coming up in Chicago, New York, and my hometown in Missouri. Folks can get tickets for the New York event (it’s on August 9 at Caveat) here! I’m gonna wear huuuuuge pants.
That’s it! Don’t forget that you can support Lillian by posting about her book on social media, featuring her on your podcast or newsletter, rating and reviewing her book on Goodreads, and coming to one of her events <3
What’s new:
As I mentioned up top, I’m teaching a workshop on August 22nd from 7PM to 8:30PM EST. It’s about character voice, which is something I’m super passionate about. I’ve been working on this curriculum for the past three months / my entire career, and I’m really looking forward to sharing it.
Kerry Elson and I have a new piece in The Stopgap about fairy gardens. If you see a fairy garden out in the wild, please email me a picture!
I loved this piece from Eli Burnstein in McSweeney’s. The phrase, “A Letter? How Grand!” is already seeping into my consciousness whenever I check my mailbox.
About me
I’m a comedy writer and freelance copywriter living in Brooklyn. My humor writing has been published by The New Yorker, The New York Times, McSweeney’s, Reductress, and more. I’m the co-author of Jokes to Offend Men, which was named the #2 Comedy Book of 2022 by Vulture. I’m available for new writing projects, writing coaching, and nerding out about comedy, so please reach out and say hi!